Today I heard about a new weblog set up for the BBC. http://blogs.bbc.co.uk/ takes to you to “Nick Robinson’s Newslog”. My first impression when I saw this page was: I’ve seen this before
… I headed over to StopDesign, by Douglas Bowman, and I’m sure you can see the striking similarities.
Below are two screenshot compilations (of homepage and post pages combined), from both sites.
- Screenshot of the BBC Blogs website
- Screenshot of StopDesign.com
As you can see the comments icons are exactly the same, and the permalink icons are pretty similar. Their placement range-left, after a horizontal rule and separated by a pipe are common on many blogs, but the similarities in detail are obvious.
The icons are not the only similarities between these website. Another section which caught my attention was the comments area. The coloured, margined containers, the left padding within the container, the icon, numbering type and post information are pretty identical between the sites.
After looking around the BBC website a little more, I noticed other obvious similarities. Most notably the main content and side bar widths and partitions, the dark-coloured box on the top right of the sidebar column and the “Latest” heading on the homepages.
StopDesign is using MovableType for it’s publishing system, and the BBC blog mentions Six Apart Ltd (the team that created Movabletype) below the comments area. So, they’re using the same content management system, however, they should not look this similar…hmmm
Comments
Si
Website
Wednesday 7th December 2005
Why should they not look this similar?
If its a default template for the MovableType install (which I have no experience of using) then surely there’s no real problem. I know Paul’s MT install - http://www.lloydyweb.org - has similar icons to both of those instances and don’t get me started on the amount of WordPress Kubrick templates out there..
Agreed - both of these “pioneers” should be making more of an effort to mod the template or create their own to push their own brand and exhibit personal design skills but why fit it if it ain’t broke?
(Sorry for that rant - just voicing an opinion.)
Si
Website
Wednesday 7th December 2005
I’ve just realised the irony of the introduction to Nick Robinson’s current post:
“Imitation - the old saying goes - is the sincerest form of flattery. And there is no doubt that Team Cameron, however much they deny it, are imitating Tony Blair’s electoral strategy.”
Brilliant!!
Neil T.
Website
Wednesday 7th December 2005
It’s actually a TypePad blog that is hosted on Six Apart’s TypePad servers in the US, not the BBC servers here in the UK (hence the link to Six Apart’s Privacy Policy). They are, however, using Movable Type 3.2 for their BBC Backstage blogs at http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/ .
trovster
Website
Thursday 8th December 2005
Well, my arguement is the overall, complete similarities, not the tiny ones. http://www.lloydyweb.org looks nothing like either of them, and he’s even changed the icons.
Neil T: I didn’t say the BBC site was running MovableType, but a quick mention to Six Apart, who make it.
Si: I highly doubt that Douglas Bowmans site is the “default install” design, or the default install design looks that good. I believe Douglas has worked long and hard on that design, I even remember variations of white and liquid designs. It’s definitely his.
I don’t mind looking at sites that are the same, aka Kubrick styled WordPress installs, but these look SIMILAR. Effort has been made to take a design, change it slightly and pass it off as their own/different.
Again, Backstage doesn’t look like StopDesign. Showing using the same CMS doesn’t mean same-looking sites. Mezzoblue also uses MT, again, looks nothing like StopDesign.
Paul
Website
Saturday 10th December 2005
There are similiarities, although being a big fan of stopdesign they never occured to me.
Sometimes that’s just the way design is - take the new Quark logo as another recent example. It wasn’t intended to look the same as the one for the Scotish Arts Council, but by golly it does! I guess there are only so many permutations you can have of one idea.
As to the BBC, it’s good to see them use Typepad/Movable Type - they also use MT 3.2 for their Creative Archive Website (http://creativearchive.bbc.co.uk/). They also seem to be using standards more (the new international navigation bar is a styled list, and take a look a backstage.bbc.co.uk too)
I’m personally looking forward to a standards based News Online next year - I think it’s a real possibility, and the next chnage to the homepage, may also see the tables decline. The BBC may be slow boarding the standards boat, but given their public service remit, I don’t think they can be seen to be leaving anyone behind. But they are moving in the right direction.
Last comment try abc.net.au - it’s the Australian BBC if you like, and they recently went standards. Their new homepage also has screen size detection, with 800 and 1024 width versions up for grabs - and I like it!
Paul
Website
Saturday 10th December 2005
WOW! How do you automatically turn abbreaviations into HTML - this is mad. Is it sitewide, or defined in your post? Sorry must have a quick play:
Post Specific BBC ABC MT
General BT HTML CSS LASER
Paul
Website
Saturday 10th December 2005
Hmmm, you and you voodoo magic! Please, do tell!
trovster
Website
Saturday 10th December 2005
Heh. Paul, you guessed it correctly, it’s pure magic voodoo! Not added ones for ABC, BT or LASER. You can see a list of the ones which are abbreviated in the Glossary (link at the bottom).
It should be site-wide. But as the whole site is basically dwindled down to the blog, it only seems to happen here. It happens where ever I cast the voodoo.
I’ve set too much, they’ll come after me.
Loz
Website
Monday 12th December 2005
As I actually designed both the backstage blog and the nick robinson one I suppose I should offer comment.
I am a fan of Douglas Bowman. In fact I think it’s safe to say that he (along with Jon Hicks, the ALA bods and a few others) have inspired me to embrace CSS and all things standards compliant.
Indeed I would thank them for making me, I feel, a better designer for it (albiet not in a visual sense) because now I actually understand how to build as well as design.
Clearly (as if you couldn’t guess) I am going to dispute that they are as similar as you suggest. I think it’s fair to say that it has been inspired by, yes, but there are significant differences.
Yes a similar device has been employed at the start of the page, but colours, and column widths are different. The colour palette has long been in use on BBC News - since way back when in fact (c. ‘97 when I worked there).
Without that device I think that it would be hard to level the similar accusation at the design, but putting a heading on a coloured background is not a new nor unique device. Putting a sidebar on a coloured background is not exactly unique amongst blogs either. Spacing? Well mutliples of ten is the standard fallback for any web designer, cos its easy to calculate/keep track of (and it’s also what your shift nudge setting is in photoshop if your base nudge setting is 1px - yes we are that lazy).
Despite what is written in your article the icons are not the same - a screen grab examined in photoshop would confirm that (and the column width/spacing thing). I would suggest that if you are to iconify ‘comment’, many designers would pick a speech bubble. Besides, these icons are based on stuff we did at the BBC years go (again around ‘97), that didn’t see the light of day. Backstage uses exactly the same icons.
I also notice that you yourself use the same method of formating comment header information (author, comment no, date and time etc) as Doug does - more so than the Nick Robinson blog - plagarism or inspiration? Or just sheer coincidence?
There are similarities - but there are similarities between many many websites out there, not just these two. That doesn’t mean that the design has been copied wholesale and then tweaked as, I feel, is implied in your article. If the blog is viewed in the context of a BBC News website, the site is very much ‘on brand’, and uses the same type settings and colour palette as that site does.
Anyway, I realise that this is devoid of tone, so I must stress that I am not sat here typing this foaming at the mouth, I am just merely trying to enter into a (productive) dialogue that addresses the issues you have raised. The last thing I would intend is for it to decend into a pointless ‘my dick is bigger than your dick’ exercise. Besides, my dick is enormous ;)
trovster
Website
Monday 12th December 2005
Thank-you very much for taking the time to comment, and in such length, it is appreciated.
Anyone interested in web-standards I think gives a great nod to Douglas Bowman and the guys at A List Apart. And it’s great that the BBC are taking web-standards seriously, so I commend you on that.
I now understand the similarites, and differences which you, among others, have pointed out in the comments. I am not a designer, so I do not see the details as clearly as others. It was my initial view that the sites were similar because it reminded me of the StopDesign site immediately. Looking more closely I do see the differences you’ve mentioned.
I’m glad you took the time to comment, and in such a non-trollish-way (except the last comment!) nor getting angry.